The bad news for NHL fans is mounting by the day, and it seems to be getting worse.
No training camp, no pre-season, and any day now, likely the loss of the first regular season games of the 2012-13 campaign.
The good news though, especially when compared to the negotiations involving the doomed 2004-05 season, is the fact that the two sides are still talking.
In fact, the NHL and the NHL Players' Association have been talking regularly right through the summer, and have continued to do so since the lockout started on Sep. 15.
Does the fact that the sides are continuing to meet give you reason for optimism?
In the fall of 2004, there were no talks at all for nearly three months once the lockout began on Sep. 15. October and November both passed in silence before talks finally resumed on Dec. 9.
So while it's true that not every 2012 negotiation has centred on core economic issues, the fact that the sides are talking at all can be taken as a positive.
But that said, plenty of other side-effects of the lockout are back with a vengeance. NHL players have signed on overseas, the arenas sit dark, and the only news coming from the league arrives from the board room instead of the dressing room.
So what do you take away from these negotiations? Is there reason for optimism?
As always, it's Your! Call.